Forever in our shadow
For a couple of years now I’ve tried to grasp the concept of Arsenal and Tottenham hating each other on all levels: from fans to the board. I do realise that emotions are irrational. You hate someone just because you hate someone. Full stop. And yet, and yet…
Surely fans aren’t born with this. It’s a cultivated feeling. If you are born into the Gooner family (and I don’t mean that thing on Twitter, I mean mommy and daddy), chances are they’ll raise you to hate Spurs. Works the other way around too, of course.
It will probably remain a mystery to me, but I genuinely don’t understand how the hate feeling can be cultivated. You can’t be made to hate someone because of the fact of their existence, especially if you didn’t feel any negative emotions towards them in the first place. However, it’s not the point of this article.
The point is rather this: how can there be a debate about which Club is bigger? Hatred aside, I’ve seen grown men having heated arguments that “Arsenal/Spurs is bigger than Spurs/Arsenal because…” In my view, it’s completely nonsensical.
I may not understand the hate concept because I wasn’t born in London, or into the family of one of the respective clubs, but the ongoing debate about which Club is bigger wasn’t at any point something that needed proving or having arguments about. In my view, comparisons and head-to-head battles can only take place when the opponents are worthy matches. Which is not the case here. Simply put, Arsenal are a big club, while Spurs are irrelevant. Here’s why.
We are a big club
History (honours)
Just looking at the list of honours the Clubs have should put the argument to bed. The last time Spurs won a trophy was in 2008 (it was the League Cup). Their last FA Cup was won in 1991 (24 years ago), while their last league triumph came in 1961 (54 years ago!). On overall they have 2 league titles, 8 FA Cups, 4 league cups and 2 UEFA Cups. If we are counting the Community Shield, Spurs have won it 7 times, 3 of which being joint winners.
Arsenal’s last major cup came in, well, 2015. Before that, in 2014. We have won the league 13 times, set the record for most FA Cup wins with 12. We haven’t won any UEFA Cups, although won it’s predecessor the Fairs Cup in 1970. We also won the old Cup Winners Cup in 1994 and have claimed the Community Shield as ours 13 times, sharing it just once.
Spurs have recorded 1 Double, Arsenal have 3 (two of these in recent history). Furthermore, Arsenal went unbeaten in the league in 2004, claiming the only existing Golden Trophy.
Managers
I’ll say just one word: continuity. Over their 129-year history Arsenal has changed a mere 18 managers (!). It means Arsenal managers averaged 7 years at the helm! Our longest-serving manager is our current one: Arsene Wenger, who’s just year short of reaching 20-years-in-charge milestone. He is followed by George Allison (13 years), Bertie Mee (10 years), George Graham, Herbert Chapman and George Whittaker (all 9 years).
What about Spurs? They have changed 41 managers (!) in 133 years. Their longest-serving manager is Bill Nicholson (16 years), followed by Peter McWilliam (15 years) and Keith Burkinshaw (8 years). Everyone else held out 6 years or less. Furthermore, they have changed 25 managers in the last 31 years. For comparison’s sake, we’ve only changed 7 in the same time frame, out of which 4 were caretakers, prior to appointments of George Graham, Bruce Rioch and Arsene Wenger respectively (Stuart Houston and Pat Rice shared duties for a very short period).
Did Spurs have a manager even remotely close to Arsene Wenger?
Stadiums
Arsenal played at Manor Ground at the very beginning, apart from a three-year stint at the nearby Invicta Ground between 1890 and 1893. After that the Gunners moved to Highbury (in 1913) and it has been the Club’s home for 92 years. Now we play at the Emirates, a state-of-the-art modern stadium opened in 2006.
Tottenham played at different public pitches at the outset, for a period of about 6 years, before moving to their current ground, White Hart Lane. To give you some context, White Hart Lane’s capacity is 36 thousand, while Highbury’s was 38 thousand. Even after countless renovations Tottenham’s stadium remained smaller than Highbury, to say nothing about how Emirates is bigger than White Hart Lane.
Why did I bring the subject up altogether? Simple: Spurs are planning to build a new ground, one which will seat 500+ more people than the Emirates currently does. It’s very obviously a stab at Arsenal, but this transition is irrational at its highest for Spurs.
While we needed a new stadium because Highbury was no longer capable of giving all the fans a chance to attend a game, Spurs don’t have such a problem. Their average attendance last season was a thousand or so below the maximum capacity of White Hart Lane. They won’t fill their new stadium. They simply don’t have that many fans.
Why do Spurs need a new stadium? They won’t fill it
The verdict
I could probably go on and on, talking about players and such, but I see no point really. On top of all the facts I mentioned, I will add one more that’ll further rub the salt into Spurs fans’ wounds: they haven’t finished above us for at least twenty years. Frankly, I see no further grounds for comparisons.
I can compare us to United or Liverpool, even to Chelsea and City. I say “even” because the latter two clubs have only become successful quite recently. Comparing Tottenham to us makes no sense. Apart from occasional wins in North London derbies, they don’t have anything to demonstrate their superiority. Especially since said wins usually start a comeback for Arsenal and a downfall for Spurs.
Cheers!
Russian Gooner. No, it’s not always cold in my home country 🙂
A staunch Arsenal supporter since 2004. Started writing about the Gunners in 2013.
Currently in London to get a degree in journalism.
I have a feeling Blogs like this are one day going to be rubbed in our face in a few years time when Flopspurs eventually turn the balance of power and they will – because if it can happen, it will happen.
I hope it is not in my lifetime, but one day this blog will be popping up on screens from a 30 year old Internet archive and be a lesson in why it’s not a good idea to be smug.
Maybe there will one day be a power shift, but we can’t worry too much about the future. It may happen, it may not. Hasn’t happened in 130 years
I suppose from the viewpoint of a 21 year old moscovite there is no comparison between the clubs. Sorry to say this but you have no perspective on things. Come back in 20 years and see how things stand. Arsenal have benefited from astute management by Arsene Wenger whilst Spurs have not but lets see what happens after Wenger retires and our larger stadium evens revenues out. In London things look very different.
I don’t account for the future, anything can happen. I’m talking about now and the 130-year period preceding it
For a club that is ‘irrelevant’ and not worthy of debate you seem to have spent a lot of time trying to justify your paranoia and over inflated superiority complex ! Also, fyi, there are 24000 fans on the season ticket waiting list at WHL – hardly an indication that they would not fill the new (state of the art) super stadium. Keep the bitterness going, it is very amusing !!!
What’s amusing is that use the stadium you haven’t even built as an argument cause there is no better one. And by the way, Arsenal have roughly 80k on the waiting list. We can fill 2 Emirates and still have roughtly the same number of people waiting that you do now
My dad is bigger than your dad, so there !!! Just how are you going to fill the Emirates twice, even if your schoolmates only take up a smaller amount of space ?
So.. Im a spurs fan and simply wanted to clear one thing up, can we fill the new stadium? Yes.
I’ve been a member since the age of 10 and been on the season ticket waiting list for over 10 years, and still only 32,000 in line for one! My son is 44,000 in line. (FYI you have to pay to be on this list every year) to put this in context, Chelsea don’t have a waiting list… I can purchase a Chelsea season ticket today if I wanted to.
Every game is a technical sell out, (apart from Europa and league cup). The reason attendances are averaging 35k is due to corporates not turning out. Most home games sell out within hours, once tickets go online to members.
In conclusion if spurs released season tickets today for the new stadium they will be sold within minutes.
Currently 25k season tickets
48k members on waiting list.
Thank you
Will
Thanks Will.
I was about to dive in with the same info.
Suggest foreign gooners do their research before making such stupid and totally incorrect statements.
Think also 13 charity shields as accomplishments is a bit funny.
The facts are :
I) Arsenal have been more successful than Spurs. Us Spurs fans cant argue that
Ii) Arsenal have had some amazing teams
Iii) Despite I) and ii), they have zero chance of winning the league or champions league for one reason. Wenger.
Us Spurs fans know that. Lets hope the gooners don’t suss it out too soon !
Zero chance? That’s wrong even formally, I believe even newly-promoted teams have a chance of winning the league, just a very small one. As for Wenger, he is one of the few who can win us the title and/or CL. Come back next year, we’ll have this discussion again
Will check next time, but I’ve seen varying reports on the subject. Thought the waiting line was much shorter
What a sad person. I can see you gooners are a little worried of your future understandably.
You have had your days and deservably but a bigger club than Spurs—NEVER!!!
As for a 6o,ooo capacity at the new lane, not big enough, should be increased to 80,000.
And what a stadium this will be with atmosphere,— something the Emerates lacks badly.
You bring up STADIUM ATMOSPHERE as an argument? I’m dead
The fact you have even attempted to argue a case proves you are not sure. Arsenal’ s newer fans are plastic corporate types who sit silently at the Emirates . Only recently have locals started supporting them. A good analogy would be Manchester . Historically City have been supported by locals through thick and thin whereas United’s are just glory hunters who probably have never been to Manchester .
I agree, there are a lot of plastics at the Emirates. That’s why we have a much better atmosphere at away games. As for the article, I wrote it because I’ve never explicitly covered my opinion on the subject and I believe, it will be both the first and last article on the topic from me
Please back up your evidence that spurs will not fill the new stadium rather than pure assumption . Tottenham currently have a season ticket waiting list of 47,000….http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/10739060/Tottenham-eye-2017-stadium-switch-as-Daniel-Levy-defends-summer-spending-and-Tim-Sherwood-role.html
Always in your shadow? You are having a laugh. That we are a big club is not in any doubt. I’m sure most football fans gooners included would testify to that fact. Yes you have won more trophies than us and fair play to you. When it comes to shadows and all that rubbish you just have to have a look at our records and firsts to see it’s the other way around. Almost everything you have done we did first. We won the double before you. We won the FA cup before you. We won a European trophy before you, in fact we were the first British club to win a European trophy. We won the League cup before you. We were the first out of our clubs to win back to back FA cups and we did it twice before you did it. We are the leaders you lot merely follow us.We still hold the record as the only amatrur club to win the FA cup and that will not be done again. We hold the record for most straight wins from the start of the season. 11 in 61. First British club to win the Eufa cup. First British club to win 2 different European trophies. Cup winners cup and Eufa cup. British record of eight consecutive victories in major European competition. The first team to score two or more goals in every UEFA Champions League group game (2010–11. Most victories in a League season: 31 out of 42 games in 1960–61. Fastest ever Premier League goal scored: 9.7 seconds by Ledley King against Bradford City in 2000. Most goals scored in a Premier League game: 9 (joint record). Most prolific goal scorers out of any English team in European football competition, scoring an average 2.1 goals per game. British record of eight consecutive victories in major European competition. In your shadow lol. I think not.
Is that bazspurs formally of the bill Nick site?
That you were the first to do something doesn’t make you bigger. I’m sure I can also check the Wikipedia page and find a lot of things Arsenal did first. But even if your logic was anything to go by, Nottingham Forest won the Champions League before Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea, to name a few. Doesn’t make them bigger than these clubs
Maybe it doesnt mean they are a bigger club but it means they have a place in the history books and will always be remembered. Not irrelevant as you seem to think
Well said my man… Took the words right out of my mouth!! One thing I would like to add… Only two teams have won a major trophy in all of the last six decades…. Manure and spurs……… Shadow, what shadow,,,, we at spurs simply do not see it.
Football is, has, and always will be a game of ups and downs. In a cyclical fashion teams rise to the top and fall to the wayside….
COYS
It’s true, teams rise and go down as well, however this time is the Gunners time so we have the bragging rights.
I don’t see why we even talk about this, there is no basis of comparison. Arsenal is way bigger than Spurs. That’s it!!!!
you compare yourselves to Man U? where’s your treble or CLs? hahaa…
ok…and arsenal has no firsts…like first between us to win the league? Oh, and you’ve never reached the CL final, have you? and ‘first’ to win FA Cup and league cup in same season. ‘first’ to have unbroken stretch in the top flight. ‘first’ in number of unbeaten games….’first’ in player with most golden boots in PL history, ‘first’ to have floodlights, ‘first’ to introduce the stopper centre-half….so your only argument is that you’ve won things ‘first’, not you have more fans, more trophies, more money.lolol… sorry, even chelsea is a bigger club than you are…but then you like most of your lot would say you have class (Bank of England club??) or you play in white, and white is the traditional colour of purity (yep red has always had a bad rap in Western culture, eh? hahaaha)
I really enjoyed your article which I agree with totally, however when mentioning trophies won by Arsenal you have some omissions. League Cup won 1987 & 1993. European Cup Winners Cup in 1994 and Intercities Fairs Cup in 1970.
Good article, and I can see why anyone from another country would support them, but it’s like me saying I supportReal Madrid or Barcelona, Bayern Munich etc, you did a lot of research and mostly well done but you did miss that Spurs were the first English club to win a European trophy, cup winners cup in 63 when only the cup winners of their league could enter, similarly the old European cup , when we only missed out when our captain broke his leg in the semi, no subs allowed, and could well have won that too, also the first English club to win two different European trophies, the first club to do the double in modern times, and yes you do keep getting into the CL, but if it was only the league winners allowed in as before maybe you wouldn’t be singing the praises so much of wenger, and of course you are a bigger club and I would find it difficult to argue against it, but it’s no point Spurs building a stadium for 40,000 if we want to compete, we have 25,000 on the waiting list for season tickets, and probably you had similar when you went up from 38,000, I do have many friends who are gooners but they didn’t get much joy taking the mickey last season, so I support Spurs , and always will because of their tradition, do you know who the first person was to win a league medal as a player and a manager, Bill Nicholson and the only club to have won the cup whilst not a league team, you must have guessed by now, yes , I love my teams history, but , ad I say , I can understand why people from another team support winners, but I think you should have chosen Chelsea
and arsenal never have any firsts…or Liverpool, or Man united…looolol..most Spurs fans reckon you’re bigger than liverpool hahahalooooooooololol.
Good article and thanks for the info. I supposed this article is meant for spurs supporters and not for gooners. So they will have a (slightly) bigger stadium than us, but who is to say that Arsenal won’t do some slight upgrades and out-seat the stadium by say 1 seat a day after the new white hart lane opens
Arsenal are the only club in the Premier League allowed to play matches with fewer than the legal minimum percentage of seats made available to away fans. This gives them an unfair advantage at home. Arsenal argue that for “health and safety” reasons it’s not possible to provide the necessary percentage. Why was this not spotted during the design phase? And if they can’t provide the necessary percentage in a full ground, why shouldn’t they be made to play with some unsold home seats for every match? Arsenal have an unfair advantage over every other team in the league when playing at home.
Never heard that. We give you guys more than you get anywhere else
Here’s a link to start you off, Dave.
http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/280143.html
This is because the powers that be at arsenal know that 9000 Spurs or Liverpool fans would make more noise supporting their team then the 50000 or so gooners who have made their way over from their former home, the red hot cauldron of noise known affectionately as The Library.
This is just another example of them bending the rules to gain advantage any way possible as they have done their entire shady history
There is a very good reason for Spurs fans to hate Arsenal. That is because back in the day Arsenal’s chairman, who was also in a strong position at the FA (conflict of interest, anyone), made the decision to relegate Tottenham from the old first division and promote Arsenal from the old second division even though neither club had finished in relegation or promotion positions. This was because Arsenal had built a new stadium in Highbury and would struggle financially if they played another season in the second tier. So not only did Arsenal move into our patch from South London, but they used their connections in the football establishment to pull a stunt that would make Sepp Blatter blush. As a consequence Arsenal will forever stand for corruption and the old-boys’ network. So Spurs fans have a legitimate reason to hate Arsenal. If you don’t believe me, look it up.
All true. although as an older fan than my younger writing colleague and a veteran of many 80s North Bank battles I think the recent bitterness is down to the complete and under dominance of last 20 years.
This is abject nonsense.
If you are at all interested in knowing the fully research facts about those post-WW1 decisions (which highlight lots of corruption, but not as you understand it) then follow this link:
http://www.blog.woolwicharsenal.co.uk/archives/5215
And may the healing begin….
Rubbish spurs got relegated due to Liverpool and manu fixed a game so both could stay up the year arsenal got promoted over it was done on a vote.
The fact is that was the way things were done at that time clubs could only get promoted as a result of this vote Arsenal had nothing to do with spurs getting relegated or not get promoted.
Absolutely right. And remember in modern times David Dein, in his FA capacity, making the decision that Spurs couldn’t postpone their lasagnagate match, whilst standing on the the Emirates pitch. Old boys network! Also over the years when Arsenal and Cheatski had CL games, Arsenal almost always had a home game to follow, whilst Cheatski were lumbered with a more difficult away games.
You might want to go back to 1980 Arsenal got to the Cup Winners Cup Final and the FA cup final fixture congestion meant nothing to spuds so arsenal had to play 2 finals and a league game in days we still stuffed the Sick Parrots despite their non cooperation. Has anyone mentioned the champions league record of 10 clean sheets or that most away goals in 1 game there’s loads more…
and Spurs have never been corrupt? hmm…considering this happened over 100 years ago..i doubt you can find any evidence bar hearsay…oh and since 1913, we’ve kind of outperformed you in most areas..
Do Chelsea fans write articles about being bigger than Fulham? If something is obvious why bother? Every day there are articles written by Arsenal ‘fans’ about Tottenham. Wonder why that is? In terms of genuine fan base there’s no difference. In terms of pretend fans all around the world Arsenal are obviously ahead. The new stadium and investment; larger exposure and a trophy or 2 will soon change that. It really is pathetic having to continue writing these articles. I wonder what type of ‘fan’ wrote this excuse for an article?
Mark Frost ex of Milldon?
Dave I have been reading your articles when they mention Tottenham and realised it was you. Our clubs have gone in different directions since those days (as have our careers, I would imagine). Contact me on my email address if you like. Good to see you are still passionate about football even if it is the wrong club!
This is my site but I very infrequently write on it. My personal site is http://www.1nildown2oneup.net Oh dear even the site name may offend haha.
Hope all is well old chum?
Fulham do not claim to bigger or better than Chelsea. Thats why.
you seem envious dude… no worry, but then most clubs with global fan base have pretend fans (sic)…itr’s how it works… oh, and learn football rivalry…and chelsea and fulham aren’t rivals…seems you live in the past, fellow..
All this Crap spouted by the Gooners that they are not worried about our new Stadium and that we wont fill it just goes to prove exactly what they know about us ZILCH
Building the new Stadium is because we have a 20-000 Waiting list, and I believe all this
Garbage being Spoken by them is because they Realize things between us will Change
Considerably once it is Completed
Come back when it’s completed, we’ll talk again
as do we..and? and it’s funny how you make all these assumpetions/presumptions of how you’ll be some force…haha…yes, you’ll have more money, but a successful club is based on more than just money…..having a good chairman and a manager is key too. whether Sr. Poch can be that, or Levy will be that or his successor remains to be seen….
This debate cum argument is unnecessary. To fans of both clubs, it an unnecessary puffing up of their collective egos. Let the history tell itself in the future. Though an Arsenal fan, I believe non of the clubs will stay static, there will be new innovations and developments in both of them. Let us keep our arms crossed, no need to fight. All the clubs are prides of London and they all complement her rich history. Good luck and no need to abuse or kill one another.
Spoken like a true football fan when we used to be mixed together and had good banter but not insulting..
Love watching Arsenal,they play entertaining intelligent football…….it is just the arrogant pricks that follow them that make me sick. When can they not just appreciate what Wenger has done for them rather than spending all their time rubbishing other teams. Success goes in cycles……..remember that .
Get a life you obsessed, bitter, twisted, begrudging, resentful woolwich wanderer’s fair-weather fans. Concentrate on your own moribund club. COYS!
It is frightening how disilluisoned spud fans are!! I agree no one can predict the future but you can not argue with facts. Arsenal are a much bigger club. End of. No debate. Long may this continue!!!!
Blimey – I read more articles abour Spurs by Arsenal fans than by Spurs fans these days. Then theres Wilshere and Szcezny having a perpetual discussion about Spurs with Spurs fans. Arsena; is a great club – isnt there anything to love and write about at the Emirates?
I never stated my opinion on the subject, thought I ought to. Don’t worry, I won’t write another article like that anytime soon. Chances are I will NEVER write one 🙂
I am a spurs fan and while I unfortunately agree arsenal are a bigger club with more success (gained only in the last 20 years) I do not agree that they are an overall better club. Your away support is ok and your home support is embarrassing. Everyone hates arsenal because every year starts off them winning every title from the BPL to the grand national and the world cup and then win the FA cup (by beating championship level opposition in the finals). That on top of all the usually keyboard warrior s*hit they spout with a massive amount of arrogance and lack of knowledge!! Your fans are deluded, massively ungrateful, dis loyal and arguably know less about football/history/passion/loyalty than any other club in England. At the end of the day I know I would rather go to a passionate/lively/loyal club with real fans and an atmosphere. Your players and fans really lack in class and with arsenal being a bigger club I cannot understand the massive obsession that your fans/players have with Tottenham. At the end of the day I would chose a loyal passionate club like Spurs/Everton/Villa and dare I say the east London pikey’s over sharing a stand with some jumped up, deluded fans that turn up at arsenal (while they win) and mock everything from players to their most successful manager as soon as they have a blip. I can keep going but I will leave you with one thought #wengerout
deluded? like how you’re all arrogant, when clubs with far superior tradition to you (,i.e. Liverpool) have fans who aren’t? Hmmmm….and thisis why AVB (your great manager in the late Billy Nich’s league, eh?) said shie about us. As did van der Vaart, Bale, and Redknapp? and last 20 years lolooool..sorry, no. you’ve only ever been better than us in the 60s nd the early 80s. we’ve been better than you for far longer in English history. Enjoy Chelsea being a bigger club than you overall.
Looking forward to seeing your theory tested when the Emirates is the old stadium in town and the plastic fans have moved on.
With Chelsea, West Ham & Spurs all operating from what the gentry will see as the new places to be seen.
As far as size is concerned? Not sure why it’s important, I’m sure orient fans couldn’t give a monkeys about the size of their club they love it, it’s theirs.
To my understanding arsenal is the only club on the English leagues that moved to get better fans. At that point in time it made itself the one club that will turn its back on its fans for profit, and it’s been screwing the fans ever since. Spurs not only have remained in the same area they are now dragging the entire area forward. You carry on being an arsenal fan for the big numbers. I will support the club that’s never walked out on a fight, or its fans.
Idiot
We know Joe, you don’t have to tell us what you are.
Broken record get over it,do you still whine on about your stadium getting bombed by the Germans in ww1 because it’s that long ago.
huh? a studium that doesn’t exist? in a war where London as a whole got bombed? I like this, the only Gooners you know are 90 years old plus, and fought in WWII…ask them to tell me what Normandy and Market Garden were like, will you…
Places to be seen is that your view of being a football fan
I was implying that it’s the prawn sandwich brigade of which you have many. But hey!
Neither of us will leave to see the day when the Emirates is old. Almost all the plastics have moved on during the 9-year drought. That it’s a tourist attraction in London I can do nothing about. The tourists visit the things they want to visit. If they prefer the Emirates to White Hart Lane, it’s their call. Are you suggesting that I don’t love Arsenal? You are wrong, I do. Dragging the entire area forward? You should read how they actually threaten the entire area by building a new stadium. Here http://www.7amkickoff.com/2015/7-reasons-why-tottenhams-new-stadium-deal-is-bad-for-them-and-bad-for-football/
loool..fuck off. this is why most of you once hated Levy, and Sugar? And why the Emirates hasn’t contributed to the community, like a housing scheme where Highbury used to be? loolol…sorry, continue your bullshit double standards.
and we moved from Highbury since it was/is surrounded by houses…so yeah, destroy people’s homes for a stadium…..the true spirit of compulsory purchase….. and old stadium? yep, because fans only see football based on a nice stadium, right?
We are a bigger club and have been for as long as i can remember which happens to be a very long time. Thank goodness for that, would be unbearable in their shoes.
Well i remember the same stuff being said to us by Sir Alex Ferguson and came to the conclusion that Alex was scared because, why well, if Arsene built the Invincibles on close to shoestring well then what would he build when he has every resource.
I think spu will struggle to fill their stadium but not so much where its totally noticeable. They will probably come in about five to ten thousand short depending on whos playing, they will fill it when playing a team as big as us.
Arsenal are obviously top dogs in North London now, and they have been for exactly twenty years – we finished above them in 1995, so it’s a fact. Before that, domination swung from from one club to the other right through the post-WW2 period, with each club winning the League in the ’50s, us totally ruling the ’60s, them taking the ’70s with their totally fluky 1971 Double and the ’79 FA Cup against our two League Cups and a EUFA Cup, and the ’80s being split between our cup wins under Burkinshaw and their tedious but successful version of football under Graham. Then came Wenger, and the pendulum has stuck in N4 ever since, but don’t confuse ‘well-run’ with ‘bigger’ – only when you got a stadium nearly twice the size of WHL did your historic average attendance overtake ours, and Wenger can’t go on forever – the next twenty years might just be a bit more interesting, I hope!
yes, a difference of 1000 over 100 years? wow…..i like how you’re reduced to hope and ifs and buts and could and shoulds…and well-run? yes, you like to live in hope don’t you?
pathetic sad article. notice how the is just bad on quantity of trophies and doesnt include things like where teams have written history. why are goons so obsessed with writing about spurs. trying to convince yourselves? arsenal fans are so insecure!
1995? oh when you finished higher, but didn’t do much with it? got it..no it’s rivalry, duuuuh…. just like how United/Liverpool get on, it’s what rivals do…
hmmm…unbeaten season, most FA Cups, three leagues in a row, stopper centre halves, first league cup/fa cup in same season, first floodlight game, first televised game, first ground to be a listed building, player with most modern Golden Boots and European Golden Boots, longest period unbeaten,
Your biggest ever gate is smaller than Tottenham’s, they are just as big a club as Arsenal, unfortunately for them they are not as successful, they have been in the past and can be In the future, success nowadays is mainly bought about by the money the club or club’s backers have.
Oh and by the way,. you have never filled your ground, not even when playing clubs like Dortmund in the CL.
Get a lfe, wait and see what happens, then if anything you have written comes true feel free to gloat us much as you like, you seem well practised in gloating.
Does anyone see the irony on a 21-year-old Muscovite trying to provide the definitive guide to why Arsenal are bigger?
As others have said, football is cyclical. Until the 1990s Spurs almost certainly had the bigger fanbase.
Their worst ever run of owners coincided with a visionary chairman like Dein and the appointment of Wenger. Arsenal can be proud of what they achieved.
The most important thing is a club having a soul. Anyone can support a team because it wins..but what is gained?
Spurs were the most romantic brand in British football..but they blew it. However that legacy still remains in a huge fanbase.
fanbase…looolol….oh, i think Liverpool and United had bigger and more justified “brands”…
I stopped reading after the first paragraph because this article is nonsensical. No one has the debate of which club is bigger because it’s so obvious. You have made up this imaginary debate so that you can write this article.
If you hadn’t aborted your dead foetus outside SE18 you would of all been Spurs fans, Fact!
Also this shadow you speak of all the time is the shadow of doubt you cast over yourself of who you really are as a football club. Our identity is with Tottenham and will always be Tottenham.
Hurts doesn’t it Dial square or who ever you are.
Get over it mr broken record do you still whine on about the Germans bombing your stadium during ww1 just as well we had moved to north London so spurs had some where to play.
The only reason the article was written in the first place, I feel, is that since… Spud’s new toilet pot announcement…many Spuds has had a lot to say about Arsenal and comparing the size of the emirates with the toilet pot. so do not blame the lad that wrote this article in defence of The Arsenal and basically dashing any Spuds thought of overtaking Arsenal. We are basically years ahead…you guys only started. dont count your chickens before they hatch!!
Spurs fan here. Arsenal are no doubt currently better than spurs, and have been for the last 20 years. It was not the case in the 80s when I started supporting them. But geez, the number of articles and time dedicated to spurs by Arsenal fans and some players. I guess the team that was winning league titles now prefer to console themselves that they are better than their neighbors. That is what should concern you.
Abe and others who have said so. I did not write the article but in the last 60 articles on my site 3 have involved Spurs and one of those was part of a series that looks ta every other PL club through a Gunner’s Eyes. That articles was balanced and praised my numerous Spurs fans.
That’s my first article on the subject. I’m not accountable for other writers. Only they choose what, when and how frequently to write
you don’t seem to understand football, do you?
you won more trophies in the 80s than United. were you a bigger club overall..NO!
One other great point…..apparently if you have had less managers, it makes you a bigger club.That would make Milton Keynes Dons bigger than Real Madrid then
Gooners….the shit stain on the underpants of football.
The very existence of this article written by a gooner completely contradicts the principle argument It contains… Whilst being rather sad, Its actually quite amusing… Maybe you can ask your therapist to explain the meaning of irony?
So, if no debate necessary, why post a bloody article on the subject. Tells us all we need to know. Both clubs are steeped in huge history, with top level achievements far outdating most other clubs. You have a neighbour with a comparible sized following and CV. Get over yourself and enjoy the rivalry
For a club that you claim are irrelevant, you sure go into detail and have obviously spent a lot of time researching them. That seems to me like someone desperate to prove a point. COYS!!!
because it takes research to point out your shortcomings…
We won another FA Cup dude! Now that the debt for the stadium is well manage. We can attract players like Ozil , Sanchez and maybe Benzema for this season. We are again pulling away from Spurs yet again.
And for Spurs with their new stadium coming up. They will know what is it like to sell your best players to raise funds to balance your accounts. We did well despite all these challenges and limited resources finishing in TOP 4 every year. with regular champions league money we are able to do it within 10 years. Well Spurs have u ever thought of it? No champions league football and with a new stadium. How long are u going to finish paying the stadium. We took 10 years. I guess u will probably need 15 to 20 years. However I do applause your courage in taking this plunge following what we do. New training ground and new stadium. I guess we are always a great model for a club like Spurs. 🙂
3 Champions league places on the bounce for Spurs now. Enjoy your Thursday night football again LOOOOOL.